[LIB-CHINESE] [Fwd: [eastlib] [Fwd: Pinyin Orthography]]

[Ma Tai-Loi <matailoi@hkucc.hku.hk>]

Very interesting argument and makes much sense.    I do take one
exception:  I do not find "zhexue = sagacious learning", "feiji =
flying machine", "diannao = electri brain", etc.,  quaint and
exotic.   I tend to associate a Chinese term with the individual
characters and not its English equivalant.  After all, "zhexue"
comes from "xhe + xue."    Had Mair used such examples as "beige
(boycott)" or "siying (diehard)", I would have agreed completely.

--

Dr. Ma Tai-loi
Fung Ping Shan Librarian / Deputy Librarian
University of Hong Kong Libraries
Hong Kong

Tel. (852) 2859-2213
Fax. (852) 2915-2458
E-mail: matailoi@hkucc.hku.hk

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• Subject: [eastlib] [Fwd: Pinyin Orthography]
• From: Jidong Yang <jdyang@pobox.upenn.edu>
• Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:01:24 -0500
• List-unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-eastlib-62754Q@listserv.unc.edu>

Victor Mair wrote:
> 
> Recipients of this message may post it on any relevant newsletter, list
> serve, bulletin board, web site, home page, or other appropriate forum.
> 
> Department of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies
> University of Pennsylvania
> Philadelphia, PA   19104-6305
> 
>                                 29/X/00
> 
> PINYIN ORTHOGRAPHICAL RULES FOR LIBRARIES
> 
> Dear Colleagues:
> 
>         It is deeply troubling that the Library of Congress conversion to
> pinyin (PRC-style romanization) that has begun this month is not
> following the **official** Chinese orthographical rules for word spacing,
> but rather will leave spaces between all syllables.  This is an extremely
> benighted policy, against which I have been fighting for more than two
> decades.
> 
>         Who is ultimately responsible for this retrograde policy?  Surely
> they can not be fluent in Mandarin or any other Sinitic langugage.  If
> they are familiar with any of the Sinitic languages, they must have been
> given extremely bad advice by software designers who are totally ignorant
> of any Sinitic language(s).
> 
>         Starting at least half a dozen years ago, I lobbied hard with
> Karl Kahler and other East Asian library professionals NOT to adopt the
> infantile policy of separating all syllables.  Why do it this way?
> What's the point?  What's the advantage?  After the work of great
> linguists such as George Kennedy, stretching back more than half a
> century, it is absolutely clear that Sinitic languages are NOT
> monosyllabic.  Even Literary Sinitic (Classical Chinese), as I have shown
> in numerous lectures, articles, and reviews, is far from monosyllabic.
> Certainly, to write out Mandarin (or any other modern vernacular Sinitic
> language) with spaces between each syllable makes it look quaint and
> exotic.  A **word** like ZHEXUE ("philosophy") becomes ZHE ("sagacious")
> XUE ("learning"), FEIJI ("airplane") becomes FEI ("flying") JI
> ("machine"), DIANNAO ("computer") becomes DIAN ("electric") NAO
> ("brain"), RUNSE ("polish, embellish") becomes RUN ("moisten") SE
> ("color"), and so on _ad nauseam_.  You can see how ridiculous this makes
> Sinitic languages look.  Please, let's show some dignity for Chinese!
> 
>         The official Chinese rules for Mandarin orthography in pinyin
> have been adopted by the United Nations, the International Standards
> Organization, and other international bodies.  An official English
> translation of these rules by John Rohsenow may be found in Appendix 1 of
> the excellent _ABC Chinese-English Dictionary_ (University of Hawaii
> Press) edited by John DeFrancis, and an exhaustive treatment of various
> issues relating to Mandarin orthography may be found in the 580-page book
> by YIN Binyong (a senior scholar on the State Language Commission) and
> Mary Felley entitled _Chinese Romanization:  Pronunciation and
> Orthography_ (Beijing:  Sinolingua, 1990), ISBN 7-80052-148-6;
> 0-8351-1930-0.  I am in possession of a 10-page index for this book which
> facilitates the lookup of key items and I shall be happy to share copies
> with interested parties (send stamped, self-addressed envelope [SAS]) to
> me at the address above or below).
> 
>         Of course, not all problems pertaining to pinyin orthography have
> been definitively solved (e.g., how to render CHENGYU ["set phrases"]),
> but neither have all problems relating to English orthography been solved
> (is it "dobson fly" or "dobsonfly," "hound'stooth check" or
> "hound's-tooth check", etc.?).  It is only through application that these
> difficulties, which actually are not very numerous in proportion to the
> entire lexicon of Sinitic, can be worked out.  Furthermore, I should
> point out that the revised and greatly enlarged version of the _ABC
> Chinese-English Dictionary_ (also edited by John DeFrancis and due out in
> 2001) will have close to 200,000 entries.  All entries, including many
> CHENGYU, have been carefully checked for proper orthographical form by
> ZHANG Liqing in consultation with writing specialists in China.  The new
> _ABC2_ will be an invaluable resource for librarians and other
> information specialists.
> 
>         Finally, the issue of pinyin orthography has vital implications
> for information processing in general.  Computers have a devil of a time
> making sense of Mandarin (or any other Sinitic language) when it is
> written out syllable by syllable, but they do infinitely better when
> users are kind to them and feed them whole words.  We talk a lot about
> "user-friendly computers," but we also need to talk about
> "computer-friendly users"!  Only when we are kind to our computers will
> they be kind to us.  And you know how frustrating a refractory computer
> can be!  On the other hand, if you treat your computer well, it can be of
> enormous advantage in all sorts of tasks.  Sorting, searching, ordering,
> and other types of information processing operations will all be much
> simpler and faster when we treat Sinitic languages as having ***words***
> rather than merely having syllables.  Psycholinguists, reading
> specialists, and other researchers have demonstrated repeatedly that
> Sinitic languages truly do have words, not just syllables.  So it is
> obtuse and obstructionist to pretend that Sinitic languages consist only
> of syllables and lack words.
> 
>         Our libraries, as citadels for the dissemination of information
> to scholars and to the public at large, should take the lead in promoting
> a rational pinyin orthography.  Not to do so will only lead to costly
> inefficiency for all users of Sinitic language materials.
> 
>         As China's most distinguished applied linguist, ZHOU Youguang,
> put it in his preface to _Chinese Romanization_, how would speakers of
> English react to the name of our country being written as U NI TED STA
> TES OF A ME RI CA?  For that matter, how would a computer react to such
> an ungodly, ungainly formulation?  I have seen some of the terrible book
> and serial titles that are already being circulated (KAO GU, WEN WU, DI
> MING YAN JIU); such a lack of linguistic common sense is enough to make
> one weep.  It is alarming to think of the consequences of millions of
> titles being entered into electronic catalogs and data bases as strings
> of disaggragated syllables.  Wouldn't it be easier, both for humans and
> for computers, to understand PUTONGHUA JICHU FANGYAN than PU TONG HUA JI
> CHU FANG YAN?
> 
>         I should have written this message three months ago when I first
> heard from Jidong Yang, our Chinese bibliographer at Penn, that the
> Library of Congress had opted for the lazy, linguistically
> unsophisticated way out by separating all syllables.  When I initially
> heard from him that this was the LC policy, I was shocked and could
> scarcely believe my ears.  Surely the best minds in America ought to be
> able to come up with something better!  So it really never sank in that
> this crude way of handling pinyin orthography would ever actually be
> instituted at the national level.  But now that work on the conversion of
> records has actually begun and Dr. Yang is sending me communications in
> the LC style with all syllables separated, I am astonished all over again
> that this horrible policy is really going into effect.
> 
>         Perhaps if we all rise up and protest vociferously, the
> authorities of the Library of Congress will listen and will quickly
> switch to the official rules already promulgated in China years ago.  If
> they do not do so now, we will all have to go through another extremely
> costly conversion later on, so why not do it now?  Proper pinyin
> orthography is already here, and it is here to stay.
> 
>         To save our country and the Chinese people a lot of unnecessary
> grief and expense, please add your voice to mine.  I urge all recipients
> of this message to pass it on to others involved with Chinese Studies and
> to exert pressure on the Library of Congress and other responsible
> libraries / TUSHUGUAN (**not** li brar ies / TU SHU GUAN ["picture book
> hall"]!) officials to adopt a more reasonable, efficient, cost-effective
> policy.
> 
> 
>                 Sincerely yours,
> 
> 
>                 Victor H. Mair
>                 Professor
> 
> --
> ******************************************************************************
> Victor H. Mair Dept. of Asian & Middle Eastern Studies
> University of Pennsylvania
> Philadelphia, PA   19104-6305
> USA
> 
> Tel.:  215-898-8432
> Fax.:  215-573-9617
> e-mail:  vmair@sas.upenn.edu   (read once or twice a week)
> 
> ******************************************************************************

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